User talk:ShadowKatze/SalvageII

I know that few bother to read this, but below is the information on Ventrillo and the runs that I plan. Personally, I feel that if everyone reads thru it and sees what we are doing, things will go smoother. If you want to read more about the areas (and I really encourage this), I would look at bgwiki for now until this site gets updated more. This plan is not set in stone. Ideally, everyone that reads thru it should have questions. It would be better to get these questions answered now than during a run. I know that the plan is not perfect and that each of you know more about your respective jobs than I do. Therefore thru the questioning process we can fine tune the plan.
One thing that would help me with communication would be if everyone had a wiki account (or some other nonrestricted way to message to me). I find the 300 character limit on the FFXI messaging to be a horrible way to communicate for me. That's optional of course, just something I would find useful. I realize a lot of people don't like to register for things like this (or read even more messages from myself). If you don't want people to know who you really are make an email account with a fake name. I'm more interested in communication than finding out personal information
THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT! IF YOU ARE NEW, SHUT UP AND FOLLOW ORDERS. I'm fine with answering questions after a run (or to certain extent after a wipe), but really, we do know what we are doing and if we ask you to do something we probably have a reason other than we all want you to die. This is especially true of pathos unlocks. I know you really want to help and show off your gear/abilities/ect. However, we give the unlocks in an order for a reason Requesting unlocks because you feel left out usually just delays the runs (and causes fights). Ask me in /tell (don't distract caller as I'm usaully calling on Ventrillo no matter who is actually typing) and I can tell you why you didn't get the cell or pass on to the caller you need it (although usually there is a very good reason you don't get it). Demanding a cell in party is the best way (or certainly one of them) to start a fight I've seen and will not get you the cell (it may in fact move you down the list even if you are right about needing it since human beings are like that some nights). Now after you have been running with us a while and see how it works, if you feel you were skipped accidently, feel free to ask, but do it nicely. My Main point is ALL QUESTIONS AFTER THE RUN. I'm willing to forgo a little sleep to answer them then, but hate forgoing drops because we have to stop and answer them during.
My personal opinon is that if we can make this an interactive process, we will find more success. This isn't like an old Dynamis group that has a major number of people and only a few leaders running the show. This activity only requires a few people and therefore is much better designed to involve everyone in the planning. My personal frustration has been over the fact that no one wants to be involved in planning, but then complains about the plans we use. The Ventrillo will help with this. Even is you prefer not to talk (and everyone talking at once is bad), if everyone can listen it will speed up overall run. Being able to talk more openly with messaging would help also in planning the runs and strats.

In salvage II only the boss mobs drop upgradable gear. All other NMs drop Plans used to upgrade pieces. There are 2 types of upgrades. If you have old level 75 salvage gear, you can make it +1 with 40-50 plans, the new upgradable piece (level45), and 15 Gold imperial coins. If you do not have the old gear you can make a new piece with the level 45 piece, 10-15 plans, and 15 mythril imperial coins. Both sets are good and have different bonuses. Currently we are each taking one set and lotting any drops for that. As we get more people we can revisit this, but the event is designed to be successful so it's just and issue of running a lot to get drops like the new dynamis is.

We will welcome any job in our group, but obviously some are more useful on certain runs. Here is my personal take on each job and how it relates to salvage II. If you feel you know how to play your job better than this, please talk to me when I'm free (not right as we start the run). You may be right. My way may work better with our particular group. I'm not an expert on all jobs by any means. Main thing is that everyone is doing what the group expects, so any changes to strat are best done outside of event.
MNK - This is your Main Tank/DD. They should /nin for most runs. One big advantage to MNK is Subtle Blow as the NM TP moves can get nasty. Bringing some extra HP potions doesn't hurt either. The more MNKs the better mostly.
WAR - Another acceptable Tank/DD. Again /NIN (weapon up to you) is better and HP potions nice. Personally, I like having the Provoke available on the earlier floors.
BLM - Main Magic DD. Stunning the Main TP moves of NMs is an equally important role. Some runs BLM has little value as a DD, but the stun is always appreciated. Back up healing is also useful as is Sleepga 2.
RDM - Main Healer of the group. Refresh at the start is a must and a WHM has trouble keeping up without it. Once more things are unlocked the RDM can become a buffer/enfeebler and even a nuker in certain spots, but healing is main priority. As main healer /whm is best for most runs, but /BLM is good for certain runs. I like to pull as RDM once group is safe on healing. This lets DD stay on mobs.
WHM - Healer. RDM gets magic first, but once WHM get's magic, they should take over the main healing. Especially on the upper floors where they will draw less hate than a RDM. The 1 healer per DD stategy (below) works great with a rdm and whm. /RDM, /SMN, /SCH, or /BLM is personal preference, but some runs favor /SMN (Ask first if not sure).
THF - Treasure Hunter / Puller. TH is less valuable on in Salvage II, but does have large impact on alex drops. Bringing THF is a bonus and better if they are a good DD.
COR - Buffer/Puller. Dancer's Roll is amazing on the lower floors and the Monk's Roll for the NM fight makes things much smoother. I would suggest Regain Roll as the other melee roll and then Evoker's and Scholar's roll on the mages. A wild card after the Melees "2hour" is great. Random Deal is also quite nice with merits. It's a shame you don't see more people requesting CORs for stuff like this. Pulling is a secondary job, but COR should also know our route and how to pull if need arises. Always bring Cards for Quick Draw as well. Dark, Light, Earth, & Ice are the most useful to us for enfeebling in case you don't have Trump cards.
BLU - They start out weak since other jobs get priority over them, but once unlocked they are quick powerful in salvage II if they have the right spells. My recommendations would Sudden Lunge, Winds of Promyvion, Quadrastrike, Amorphic Spikes, and Magic Barrier for basic spells. Nothing wrong with having them all and ask before a run if you haven't done it before.
BRD - Buffer/Puller. Marches for the melees and ballads for the mages are the usual preference. This of course can vary in some situations. The true strength of a BRD, in my opinion, is Lullaby. It can sleep a lot of things that are immune/resistant to dark sleep and is great for crowd control in most runs. Runs in undead heavy areas and when you reach mech mobs greatly benefit from this. As Puller, you may prefer /nin, but honestly, /whm benefits the group much more. BRD, like THF, should be well versed in our runs and how to pull for speed and safety.
PUP - Another under appreciated job. PUP makes for a great DD in salvage. One thing to note, is that their automaton will have all the same weaknesses they have, so you if you want them to be effective you have to unlock more things. However, PUP serves well in most runs. They can DD on most floors and swap to WHM pet on boss if you are short healing.
DRG - Great DD for salvage and Agnon is always helpful on boss/NMs. Unlike PUP they get to keep there Pet out on entry. They would make another back up DD for the main NMs. Sub job would be up to player, but /NIN is almost required for melees on megaboss runs (note that /SAM is also fine for meditate WS mode on boss). /blu (or other mage) might work as well though for healing breath and the more traditional DD subs would be fine for most runs.
PLD - Not the best job for salvage. It has uses on certain runs, but overall takes a lot of cells and doesn't do enough damage. You can use a PLD as your tank if needed though and no job is useless. WE have one Aegis PLD in LS that should be good if needed for bosses, but normally wouldn't take.
SCH - This job is great for certain runs. However on a boss run, I would recommend a different mage as healer. The SCH's true strength is in -ga spells on the lower levels (invis/sneakga, En-ga, stoneskinga, etc.). They make a good magic DD or healer on the lower levels as well. The best uses for SCH I have seen have been as a subjob however. That said, we haven't had a SCH in our main group yet. And even with the recent nerf, their "2hour" is quite strong.
DNC - DNC suffers like PLD from a lack of damage. Their buffs can be very useful, but undead are uneffected by some and the fact that they need to engage (and hit) the target to have an effect means they feed a lot of TP on NMs. If they can store TP leading up to the NMs, a support healing role would be useful, they could replace another DD if they went down. DNC does make an ok subjob though for back up DDs.
SMN - This is a high maintenance job. The AoE buffs and carby pulls are helpful in places, but as a DD it is usually lacking in salvage, due to resistance of mobs and shortage of MP. They can back up heal well with /whm, but should only be brought for specific runs . /SMN is just as good for carby pulls and that is where I see the most use for SMN in salvage. Although the addition of Favors has increased their flexibility, my opinion that they are good for certain runs only, remains.
DRK - Great salvage DD. Should bring some HP potions for when they get a lot of hate. In a pinch DRK can tank for salvage. Their only issue is the lack of defense. Another Stun is always helpful too. /NIN is my preference since they may have to tank at some point. /SAM for a megaboss is good for meditate. /THF is chosen a lot I see when I don't order a different subjob. I get the damage reasons for this, but on most runs I hate seeing this, simply for healing reasons. Make sure you Trick Attack someone if you want to /THF.
SAM - Another great DD and acceptable tank for salvage. Should also bring HP potions. The Status effects on their weapon skills are very helpful, but some mobs react violently to certain status effects, so this should be watched.
NIN - A strict DD build is best for a NIN in salvage. Tanking is handled by the other jobs, and really NIN would tank only if the others went down (which happens, but don't plan on it). Personally, I would prefer a different job, but as with PLD it has certain uses on some runs. As with all melees, HP potions are useful. Plan to use Innin Stance.
RNG - Great DD for salvage, but better on run where they can get most stuff unlocked. /NIN would be my strong suggestion for RNG. Widescan is also a bonus in some runs. This is also a good subjob for COR (I prefer WHM if possible though).
BST - Seems to be an acceptable DD when short of Melee jobs. Requires JA and range unlocks to be truly effective, but other than that no issues. Apparently, they are not allowed to charm mobs in salvage, which I find annoying, but overall they are good for a number of runs. With new HQ pets, they are even better.

Most of the NM mobs in salvage and especially the Megaboss mobs can be defeated by a simple 6 person strategy of Dedicated Healers. If you have 2 melee DDs (shared tanking) and 2 healers (rdm or whm) then each healer selects a DD and heals only him/her. Buffs should be done before the fight and the one that really matters during the fight is haste (for /nin). Healer should focus on Cure, Paralyna, and Haste during the fight with only a few exceptions. It's not that the other spells are not needed, it's that the damage spikes are severe at times and if you are casting another spell when they come it can be very easy to have someone die. The issue of enfeebling the NMs is tricky if they resist a lot don't bother it's a waste of MP. With a good set of buffs, RDM should not have to rely on convert (although it's incredibly nice if things get ugly). If you really want to enfeeble it, I would suggest waiting until you see your DD reapply shadows (successfully). The other 2 spots should be a THF (for TH) and a buffer of some sort (BRD or COR). If you have 7 the best set up is MNK, MNK, RDM, WHM, COR, BRD with THF in solo party. You can replace a buffer with a BLM for more damage in some runs or add BLM (for big nukes and stun) as an 8th. Honestly we've only run with 3 most nights. DD, DD, Healer. Mostly been THF, PUP, RDM. But we have shifted the THF to BLU and had great success lately.

This is current run we do for Ares Plans. Skadi plans will also drop.
F1: Full Clear of SE wing. Each room has 5 toads. 2 of the connecting halls have Mammools. NM frog pops in last room once you have full clear of wing. Kill and go up.
F2: Full Clear of starting room. Will be 9 crawlers and 2 Mamools. NM gear will pop once room cleared AND door opened.
F3: West. Skip room one (sneak) and attack Rampart in Room 2. DO NOT KILL DOOR until it calls NM Gears. Kill NM and door. Continue to Exit (sneak/invis). NM Gear will spawn in middle of Mammools when door is opened to exit. Must kill several Mamools (mage type) for unlocks in addition to NM.
F4: Skip for now.
F5: First room is Gears + Chariot. If time an issue, skip chariot. Pull only gears as needed to be able to slide thru room and go the dead end room to the north. Attack Rampart there and kill whatever pops out of it until NM Mamool pops. Kill NM and door, then head to exit. There will be another room of Gears + Chariot. Again skip if time is an issue. Third Chariot is in last room. Killing it (if you killed the other 2 already) will spawn the Battleclad Chariot, but we skip unless we have more people (or good stuns) as it does Discoid.
F6: Skip lowman or farm for alex until timer at 20 minutes then go up. If we have numbers however full clear will pop boss here. Clear room south to north starting with the ramparts on the south. These are best for alex farming also. Kill any mobs they summon, as they appear. If Rampart on north is last mob in room it will summon hyrda. The safest way to pop hydra is to engage the rampart and take it to low hp while there is still one other mob still alive. Then kill that other mob so rampart calls Hydra and you can easily kill the door. The Rampart will ALWAYS call hyrda with it's first TP move after it is the only mob left in room. Tail tank and keep shadows up. Tail tanking will not prevent Nerve Gas, but will keep the Hydra from having as many attacks. Nerve Gas should be followed immediately with Cursna and large Cure. Hyrda does use Immunity Bulwarks a lot so having both melee and magic DDs is useful. Kill and warp up.
F7: If you didn't pop hydra on F6 he will be here. If you did, his angry older brother will be here. Kill and exit. In our experience the HQ version of this mob is much harder than the NQ version seeming to attack both faster and stronger. Again tail tanking and shadows are recommended and Cursna is a must.

This is a Morrigan/Marduk plans area. Dvergr boss. All Mobs in this zones spawn from ramparts once the ramparts are aggroed or linked. It is somewhat possible to pull the doors without linking the adds, which can be aid greatly in certain spots. Pull the with PUP automaton has worked well for us using Deus Ex Automata or just let Pet solo door while other melee kill adds depending on the adds.

This is another Ares/Skadi Run, but favors Skadi and the Boss drops different gear.
F1: Main group should start killing first room of the SW wing. Scout (sneak/Invis) should begin looking for a Chigoe. Chigoe will not be targetable and will always be in the second hallway in whichever wing it randomly spawns in. Clear whichever wing the Chigoe is in. Main group should the first room then the Merrow in the first hallway east, then head south. It he Chigoe is in Wings 1 or 4 then kills one room of leeches before clearing the chigoe wing. The will not aggro until after the entire wing it is in is cleared. While kill the last mob in that wing someone(mage) should run back and be ready to aggro it and bring to party. As soon as the DDs have hate mage can run to warp. Kill Chigoe and warp up.
F2: Clearing the wing on F1 will have unlocked everyone on either Vulture cells (SJ, Head, Back) or Leech cells (RA, Rings). Whichever you cleared the room you start in on F2 will hold the opposite. Kill only enough to get the unlocks you need (should be 0 if you did well on F1) then kill the 2 lamia/merrow. Once the 2 Merrow/Lamia are dead 4 Gear mobs will spawn in Hallways. Exit starting room and kill all 4 Gear mobs and a NM gear should spawn. The mage can help with this by pulling the gears to the DDs one by one. They are each on the stairs directly out of the central room with the NM spawning in the room. Kill NM and warp up.
F3: Sneak/Invis head east. Acrolith NM should be in one of the first 3 rooms with Qutrub. Kill Qutrub with NM if you still need JA unlocks. Otherwise pull NM and kill. Proceed to large northern room. There should be a single Gear mob mixed with the Lamia/Merrow. Pull and kill gear. Kill any Lamia/Merrow you may need for unlocks then head to warp. NM gear should be in warp up room. Kill and warp.
F4: Head west and kill 2 Arcolith in first room to pop NM version. Kill NM. Main group should wait here while puller heads to western large room to get the Fatedealers and Dartists (2 of each). Spoliator(RNG) should spawn in western room at this point. Pull and kill. Head north and pull a few Flytraps from that room to unlock DEX/AGI/MND as needed. Send mage to warp while DDs kill Flytraps. Warp up as soon as you have unlocks you want.
F5: Skip this floor except for any remaining unlocks. Gear - Weapon, RA, Body. Gears(from ramparts) - STR, DEX. I would forgo STR/DEX since you can get them on the next level and when the Gears pop from ramparts they do it groups meaning you need a larger party to deal with them. I would skip all the small rooms except for aggro and kill the gear mobs you need for unlocks in the final large room.
F6: Kill Armoured Chariot in under 3 Minutes from the time it is pulled. Note if you link it and are able to loss aggro on it (such as pet pull) then the timer will be reset and you can pull it again later with a fresh 3 minutes. This means you can kill the chariots in whichever order is most convenient. Kill other 3 chariots for unlocks (mainly STR at this point) makes sense to do first if possible. Rampart on south wall will summon Khimaira if you kill the Armoured chariot fast enough. Kill Khimaira and warp up. If you were too slow it will call another archaic chariot. Kill that and warp up or just warp up.
F7: Khimaira will be here if you didn't pop on F6. If you did pop Khimaira on F6 then his pissed off older brother will be waiting here. Kill and exit. For both Khimera I would recommend Tail tanking. It's not that big a deal on the smaller one, but the HQ version has a nasty breath move that is forward facing cone only. Biggest issue is Fulmination. High dmg (50% or more to almost anyone), huge range (mages cannot be out of range and still cast on the melee), high rate para (seemed to proc at least 50% of the time usually more), and last but not least long stun (lasts 5-10 seconds at least). Strat is to pull all the melee off except one starting at 40-50% range (fulmination only available below 1/3HP). If you have 2 mages, one should retreat to out of range (/whm works for this on any job) while the main healer (whm preferably) stays to heal the tank. As soon as Fulmination goes off, second healer should cast Paralyna on the main healer then run into range and cast their largest cure spell on the tank then get back out of range as soon as main heal starts casting. Tank should immediately swap to full EVA gear to avoid as much dmg as possible and hit the shadows macro repeatedly so as to cast as soon as Stun wears off. Main heal should be attempting to cast their largest cure spell on the tank as soon as Stun wears. We have successful used this strat with 4 people. If the tank dies the other melee would take over (should have enough hate from the first 50% of the fight). With 3 People I would suggest the same strat but with the only healer backing off out of range after 40 and only running in to heal the tank as needed. This is obviously a riskier strat, but should be workable the majority of the time with practice. If the second DD is a PUP using the WHM frame to main heal and having the "real" healer out of range of fulmination has worked very well for us in 3-man runs.